Lot of hate out there for Rousy, saying she was too cocky and what not. Well, yeah, you kinda have to be what a lot of people would consider cocky to reach a high level of your chosen field. People that achieve high levels of success, in sports or in any other line of work, rarely get there doubting in themselves, and they certainly do stay there if they do.
I like Rousey because she's been an entertaining fighter to watch, but what Holm did was incredibly impressive.
Be interesting to see not only what Rousey does, not only to improve her striking defense, but as far as her coach in general since she'll be needing a new one anyway.
Ronda definitely needs a new coach. When you think about it her biggest areas where improvement is needed is striking offense and defense from a more technical standpoint. I won't say she has shown zero improvement because this isn't true but Edmond is a former boxer and almost exclusively a boxing coach so she should be further along after all these years with him. She is good at working the mits and hitting pads but it doesn't translate inside the cage. Her strikes have always been a bit wild and she rarely moves her head. Even against Bethe she ate multiple shots in those exchanges plus both Miesha and McMann landed decent shots. I also think there are areas she needs to make adjustments. For instance everyone knows Ronda is going to clinch and attempt to transition into an overhook or underhook to set up the judo throw. When she fought McMann who was an Olympic wrestler she knew the takedown wouldn't come easy so she threw knees in the clinch and actually was able to get the finish. Not saying it would have produced the same result against Holm but it just adds in a new facet of your game.
Back to the coaching aspect, she needs someone who can help with setting up a good gameplan as well and also give advice in between rounds to improvise as needed. When you think about it Edmund has only had to give corner advice twice, once against Tate in the second fight and once against Holm. Yet he only had to provide advice once when Ronda was facing adversity and in that case he gave terrible advice. After a round in which Rousey was getting peppered with left jabs and just kept running into them he told Ronda she was doing good and that all Holm had was throwing left hands. So rather than making any adjustments whatsoever Ronda went out and did the same thing yet expected a different result and ended up on the receiving end of a brutal kick. To make matters worse she got up with her back turned towards her opponent and made no effort to put her hands up despite knowing that is one of her opponents main weapons. In fact Ronda was on Jimmy Fallon and said right down to the "t" how Holm was going to approach the fight and yet she fell right into it.
She's basically at that point where Lesnar, Faber, and even Tate are/were at. Her skillset is as good as it will get without moving to a new camp. There are obviously several people in the division whom she can beat and I'm not one of those people who think this is the end of her career but it is time for changes. Chances are Holm/Rousey II will happen at UFC 200 in July since Rousey has said she wanted to take some time off before fighting again in July and after losing that still seems to be her plan. Hopefully she watches the tape and makes the needed adjustments.
On the flipside, all the credit in the world to Holly and her coaches. Her gameplan was flawless and despite having a TON of nervous energy before the fight started, she didn't show any signs of it once the fight got underway. She was patient as you have to be against Ronda and she utilized her range. She also showed good head movement and made Ronda miss quite a few shots while countering with her own.
EDIT: ....and to further illustrate my point Edmond did an interview where he said he didn't think Holm got the better of the striking exchanges but he'd have to go back and review the tape.
Post by currentbigthing on Nov 16, 2015 9:46:30 GMT -6
I actually had the result spoiled for me by a friend I was talking with on the phone yesterday. When he told me what happened, I found a clip online of the last few seconds and will watch the whole card tonight. Main thing is, when he told me she'd been beat what I said back to him was that I'd bet money that her seemingly being content to eat as much leather as she has to in order to get in close enough to grapple finally caught up with her. Seems that was the case. This whole thing makes me wonder if Rousey didn't take Holm too lightly the way Tyson did Buster Douglas. Because the rest of it damn near parallels Buster knocking out Iron Mike.
Post by currentbigthing on Nov 16, 2015 10:18:50 GMT -6
That's what I was thinking-- that that would be the difference between her and Tyson. That she'll be back. Hopefully she gets first crack. If she does win the belt back, I have to wonder if her subsequent title defenses might be more competetive than her earlier successful title defenses were, what with her proverbial "air of invincibilty" having been shattered and all. Well, shattered for now, anyway.
What if she takes up with someone who can really teach her how to execute and defend strikes, get her to actually move her head? Someone like Duane Ludwig? How absurdly terrifying would she be then? RouseBerg version 2.0. That's a scary, scary thought that could become an even scarier reality.
Great write-up Monk. Looks like Ronda fell prey to that same cocky mindset that first allowed Chris Weidman to knock Anderson Silva on his ass the first time.
Reminds me of that fight with Ray Mercer and Tim Slyvia---as far as MMA went Big Tim should have eaten Mercer's lunch, but he stupidly tried to stand up with the former pro boxer and wound up staring at the lights.
Yeah I still call Weidman over Silva the biggest upset I've seen live. I know a lot of people are calling Rousey losing the biggest UFC upset of all-time but when Rousey went down I wasn't shocked at all. When Weidman dropped Silva though it was a definite "oh shit" moment. The main thing is everybody loses in MMA, it's about learning and bouncing back from those losses. Plus Rousey is still at a young age and even from a conservative standpoint I'd say she can enjoy another 5-6 years of combat in her prime if she so chose to. Assuming she bounces back this will probably benefit her way more than any win because for the first time it will make her realize she has holes to work on in her game.
From the UFC's standpoint I fully understand why an immediate rematch makes sense but from Ronda's standpoint I feel she should take another fight first. Let her build her confidence back up and also show the world that "she's back" so to speak. Getting back in there with someone who beat you that soundly and gave you your first loss may be a tough mental roadblock to overcome if there isn't a fight in between to help with it.
Post by currentbigthing on Nov 19, 2015 15:43:42 GMT -6
So I've now been able to watch the fight itself and, to me, it was a dissection nearly on the level of TJ Dillashaw-Renan Barao. The most telling moment of the fight for me, in terms of Rousey's total lack of stand-up defense was when Holm was able to connect with that side kick from a nearly foward-facing stance. It takes so much longer to execute a sidekick than just about any other kick commonly seen in competition apart from maybe a wheel or a question mark kick, and those two (often in the case of the wheel and always in the case of the question mark) tend to be built around feints to help the attacks land. The fact that Holm was able to rotate her hips nearly a full 90 degrees before even starting most of the kick motion from squarely in front of the world champion and then land that kick, unimpeded, before said champ can get a hand up or even *move her head* absolutely blew my mind. I mean, the only other kick that might take longer could be an inside-out crescent kick, but I don't think I've ever seen one of those thrown in MMA. If I didn't already know she was going down, that's when I would have started to think she was in very serious trouble.
EDIT: In other news, it's really been something seeing the kind of champion Holly Holm has already demonstrated herself to be. That said, if I had Dana's ear, I might suggest going ahead with the 6-month medical suspension and in the meantime give Holm a cannon fodder opponent for a first defense. From a wrestling booking perspective, I feel like that gives Holm an extra opportunity not to be a one-and-done champion while at the same time Rousey can publicly "bitch" about how "the system is denying her the first shot at the new champ" or whatever which I think would put a little extra heat on the rematch. If I had Holm's ear, I'd demand an obstinate amount of money to do the rematch. Something like hatever Ronda's making, plus 10%. Let him haggle me to 5% if he wants. Ronda's certainly the bigger draw, but she can't fight herself, and for the moment Holm is the only one anybody anywhere wants to see her fight. There's undeniably less money in Rousey vs Anyone Else for an interim title in the event Dana decided to strip Holm of the actual title in this scenario, so it would appear that holding out wouldn't pose an immediate threat to Holm's reign.
But what would be Holm's bargaining chip? What if they say no, then what does she do? Ronda draws without Holm, but Holm hasn't proved that she draws without Rousey. Holm vs Rousey II is obviously the money fight but Holm vs any other opponent doesn't outdraw Rousey vs another opponent, or even come close for that matter. I do think she should (and I'm sure will) get a bump in base pay but you have to earn those extra perks. Right now the reality is she's fought 3 times in the UFC and 2 out of those 3 fights haven't been that impressive. In fact she barely beat Raquel Pennington whom would get demolished in a fight with Rousey. Point being styles make fight and she benefited greatly from her counter-punching lining up perfect with Rousey's constant forward motion and lack of head movement. Until she can prove that she is truly a dominant figure in the UFC then she doesn't have much room for such negotiations. So in that sense she actually needs the Rousey fight more than Rousey does at the moment.
That said I like Holm and have been watching her MMA career since she was in Legacy and even named her at the old board as someone who could be a threat to Ronda's title before she was even signed by the UFC. I just think it takes more for someone to reach that next level. Lesnar got mauled by Velasquez and Lesnar's drawing power didn't move over to Cain afterwards. Silva was starting to draw and was considered to be the most dominant fighter in UFC yet Weidman hasn't become a draw without Silva. Though the jury is out on Weidman because he's been paired with other champs in all of his defenses so far, then again that should say something about the lack of confidence the UFC has in his drawing power.
So Holm is talented as hell and has a huge win that nobody can take away, but that doesn't immediately make her a huge draw who deserves to be paid the same as the UFC's top star....at least not yet.
Post by currentbigthing on Nov 25, 2015 11:04:01 GMT -6
I didn't mean for every subsequent fight. I meant for the Rousey rematch specifically. Of course she hasn't yet earned top-end guarantees across the board, but if the Rousey rematch winds up being her very next fight, I think that strengthens her position. There's not nearly as much interest in Rousey vs anyone else in a mostly meaningless, non-title fight. I guess I'm just saying I'd at least ask for an equal purse in hopes that the counter offer is favorable because I don't think Dana would strip her and do Rousey vs whoever for an interim title straight away.
Doesn't work that way though. You have a base salary/contract that you negotiate. You typically have a 50/50 split between your win and show money. For instance $50,000 to show and $50,000 to win (obviously those are just random amounts that vary per fighter). In some cases you also negotiate PPV points that give you a kickback based on how well your PPV sells (McGregor and Rousey for example). You also have non-disclosed bonuses which the UFC pays backstage in addition to the disclosed performance bonuses (50,000 each).
Either way she negotiated a contract and is binded to said contract. She can't suddenly say she isn't going to fight unless she gets more money, you usually sign a 3-10 fight contract. That said I'm sure the UFC and Holm will be working out a new contract it just is unreasonable to expect it to be Rousey's level just yet.
Besides Randy Couture tried to pull that crap and it blew up in his face. He tried to leave UFC in 2007 while Heavyweight champion with 2 fights left on his contract. They sued him for breach of contract, created an interim championship, and Randy sat on the sidelines for a year before coming back and losing his belt to Brock Lesnar.
Post by currentbigthing on Nov 26, 2015 5:42:13 GMT -6
So, the way it worked out, they only brought Couture back long enough to get their belt off of him, huh? That's an awfully pro-wrestling turn of events. Maybe UFC is a little bit of a work sometimes...
I don't remember exact details but I'd imagine they met in the middle after his contract was up because he signed a new one. Him and Dana actually had a good relationship until he signed up for that Ultimate Fighter ripoff that Bellator did and now Dana is so pissed at Randy that he wouldn't even allow him to corner his son before he got cut from the UFC.
Ideally I'm sure Randy would have liked to win the last two fights of his contract and use him still being champ as more leverage.
Just occurred to me how much the Jackson/Winkeljohn camp can shake up the MMA landscape in the next few months. They are fresh off of Holly Holm's win over Rousey for the title, Donald Cerrone is challenging Rafael Dos Anjos for the Lightweight title in December, Carlos Condit is challenging Robbie Lawler for the Welterweight title in January, and the rumor is Jon Jones will challenge Daniel Cormier for the Light Heavyweight title he never lost in April.
It's a rough fight for me as a big fan of both. I remember seeing Aldo's destruction of Swanson in WEC and then what he did to Faber in their fight and I knew he was something special. While injuries have plagued him a bit in the UFC it still doesn't change the fact that he has only lost once in his professional career, has never lost a fight at 145 lbs, and hasn't lost a fight in over 10 years. As a terrific counter striker he also thrives against guys who want to stand and trade.
Though Conor is a pretty dynamic striker who utilizes some pretty good karate and capoeira in his techniques I just don't like his overall head movement. I find that he leaves himself open to counter-strikes too often and with that being Aldo's bread and butter I could see that being a factor. I don't know that Aldo knocks Conor out but I certainly think Aldo will hurt McGregor in those exchanges. Conor is best suited to use his excellent kicks to the body to keep Aldo out of range for counters and close the distance with short, quick combos rather than staying in the pocket for too long.
I expect an exciting fight for sure and I do think Conor still has big things ahead of him but I think Saturday Aldo will ultimately nab the win.
EDIT: Pretty excited for this week in general. Tomorrow you get a solid fight pass card headlined by Paige VanZant against Rose Namajumas which should be a really good fight. You also have Jim Miller against Michael Chiesa which should be a good grappling affair. Not to mention Sage Northcutt will be going against Cody Pfister. Sage has the potential to be huge in the UFC. A very marketable fighter and an insanely positive attitude and he's only 19. Guy has won over 70 accolades in competitive karate events and demolished his opponent in his UFC debut a few months ago. He also was famously mocked for being "too pretty to fight" by Matt Serra and Dana White en route to impressing them with his win in a Legacy FC fight. If they take their time and let him slowly build, he could be a huge superstar at 155.
Then Friday we have the TUF Finale headlined by Frankie Edgar against Chad Mendes. There is no way that this fight isn't exciting and will very possibly determine who gets the next Featherweight Title shot. We also got a great 155 lb fight as Edson Barboza and Tony Ferguson clash.
Saturday of course is UFC 194 which I plan on going in to detail prior to Saturday.
Today is the last UFC card of the year as UFC on Fox 17 will air headlined by a Lightweight Title fight between Rafael Dos Anjos and Donald Cerrone.
Main Card (Live at 8pm EST on FOX)
Rafael dos Anjos (c) vs. Donald Cerrone (Lightweight Championship) Junior Dos Santos vs. Alistair Overeem Nate Diaz vs. Michael Johnson Karolina Kowalkiewicz vs. Randa Markos
Preliminary Card (Live at 5pm EST on Fox Sports 1 )
Myles Jury vs. Charles Oliveira C.B. Dollaway vs. Nate Marquardt Sarah Kaufman vs. Valentina Shevchenko Tamdan McCrory vs. Josh Samman Danny Castillo vs. Nik Lentz Jim Alers vs. Cole Miller
Preliminary Card (Live at 3:30PM EST on Fight Pass)
Leon Edwards vs. Kamaru Usman Hayder Hassan vs. Vicente Luque Luis Henrique vs. Francis Ngannou
I love the FOX cards, they are a lot better timed than the Fox Sports 1 cards which tend to drag in between fights and run long. It's also nice to watch a full fight card and not have it be late when it is over.
Hoping for a Cerrone win but if the same RDA that showed up against Pettis shows up then it could be a rough outing for "Cowboy". Cerrone is going to also have to break out of his slow start rut which caused him to lose a decision against Dos Anjos the first time they fought. Also it sounds like a good possibility that Conor McGregor will be challenging the winner for the Lightweight title in a proposed April superfight where Conor will look to join B.J. Penn and Randy Couture as multi-weight division champions. Conor would become the first to do it simultaneously though and he says despite what the UFC wanted he has no intention of vacating the Featherweight belt.
Yeah it was pretty damn nasty, knew that fight was over as soon as it happened.
Outside of that eye poke, Prelims have actually been pretty solid so far.
EDIT: Bummer Samman lost that fight. Not sure what he was thinking after the first round, he shouldn't have initiated the takedown with as much as he was losing the scrambles. I can understand Josh wanting to test his ground game but he is predominantly a striker and should have gone back to his bread and butter.