Personally instead of just giving each archetype some identity with a stability or handling boost or something, I favor condensing some. Just make 150 hand cannons be 140's and do away with that archetype.
He makes good points, but I don't think Bungie has done nearly enough over the last year nor said anything recently to warrant expecting the kind of influx of weapons that he seems to believe will be coming.
How often do you see anyone using any of the weapons from the Moon or Vex Offensive? Outside of maybe Blasphemer, which itself is being sunsetted, you really don't because they were all garbage for the most part. That was a combination of poor archetypes and poor perk rolls. Just like you really don't see too many folks using the few weapons introduced this season, because they are mostly garbage and the perk combinations aren't great.
The Vex Offensive weapons were just Curse of Osiris weapons with leafs put on them.
So outside of a few pinnacle/ritual, raid, and a few Season of Dawn weapons, the past year has been mostly filled with garbage weapons which is a large part of why people still use Forsaken/BA/Joker's Wild weapons.
He says people get excited for reprised weapons like Dire Promise, and that's true. But there's a difference in being excited for a Y1 gun that felt good coming back into the pool with an extra perk column and random rolls, vs being excited for that same gun to come back a few seasons after being sunsetted and having to reacquire a decent roll on it (I still have only gotten like two Dire Promises, neither had a decent roll).
People would probably be more okay with sunsetting if Bungie said, "hey we have a full line up of new weapons coming to the crucible, to strikes, to gambit, as world drops, as activity drops, etc." But everything they've said seems to indicate that there won't be any full vendor/activity refresh. I mean, they already said they're only doing one ritual weapon a season instead of the three we used to get.
Will there be new weapons? Of course. Whatever new destination we get will have weapons, like the Moon. The seasonal activity will have a few weapons. The raid will have weapons. But it just seems like, from what Bungie has said, the world drop engrams and end of activity (strikes/crucible/gambit) will share the same pool of about 30 weapons from previous seasons.
People aren't going to be excited about that. Nor should they be. Here's a weapon we needlessly made so you can infuse, have fun reacquiring a decent roll on it to use for the next year.
This isn't the Taken King where crucible got a bunch of new weapons, the vanguard got a bunch of new weapons, all three factions got a bunch of new weapons, the world drops were new, etc.
It's just not the same thing. We're not going to be swimming in a bunch of new weapons that make us forget about the old weapons, because we'll still be getting the old weapons just with a new infusion cap on them.
Yes, people were excited to get a few of the Y1 guns back, because they were returning with random rolls which flat out made them better than their Y1 counterpart (an extra perk column will do that). Because they were excited for it to come back once, with random rolls, doesn't mean they'll be excited for it to come back six months after it was sunsetted.
People aren't going to be excited for the return of the Duke in Season 13 for example, because we've already been getting it with random rolls for the past two years. Sure there's a possibility for new perks to become available, but they'd have to be some incredible perks.
Outside of Y1 returns and the raid, how many weapons introduced in Shadowkeep and the seasons that followed do you see actually being used? Most have been garbage, either because of poor archetypes, poor stats, or generally garbage perk options.
And it's understandably hard for people to be more open to sunsetting when Bungie has already told us we'll be getting 1 ritual weapon a season, and that the world pool and activity pool will be the same comprised of weapons from prior seasons.
Will the new weapons be archetypes people enjoy and varied? Both Beloved and Revoker are being sunsetted, will we get a sniper in September that feels like a D1 sniper? Or will they be more like Trophy Hunter? That they're looking at why people prefer short zoom scopes and how they can make that "an interesting choice" doesn't bode well.
He's also playing ignorant on the hand cannon being weaker to red bars by saying he doesn't experience it. They used to kill vandals and that tier of enemy in one shot, as they did in D1, and that was nerfed with Shadowkeep when they added finishers to the game.
And he's also downplaying the concerns a lot of people have about the armor, because not everyone has been blessed with the RNG to get rolls they want to get the build that they want. Especially the mostly PvP players, and I don't mean the steamers.
Some of the armor could be alleviated with targeted armor farming, especially if the vendors drop high stat rolls, but people would also likely be more okay with it if the cost to masterwork the armor wasn't so ludicrous and dependent upon running a high level strike over and over and over again.
Slayerage plays the game a lot, grinding NF's a ton. It's not a pain point for him, and like others in his position, he's downplaying the concerns of a lot of people who don't play the game as a job. It's nothing for these guys to masterwork every piece of armor they get that has a semi decent roll on it. That's simply not the case for the majority of the playerbase, so they're understandably upset when some of that gear is going away in a couple of months.
EDIT: A lot of these streamers are way out of touch with reality and their thinking that influences Bungie is actively hurting the game. They're mostly ok with the power grind being how it is, and they plow through it like it's nothing because they play every activity on every character. Meanwhile, season is nearing an end and the majority of the playerbase can't attempt a Grandmaster NF if they wanted too. Too much RNG on the power climb process. The pinnacles that the average player will get a measly +1 (and most of the time in a slot where it's not even an upgrade) and the insane amount of XP required to get a power boost from the artifact.
My season rank is 133. The highest power I can be is 1018. I would need 7 more power to be able to launch a GM NF. I can be 1002. My pinnacles have given me a 1004 energy weapon, three 1003 energy weapons, 1 1003 primary, 1 1003 helmet, and 1 1003 arms.
Most of the players, who are playing a ton of the game (way more than this season warranted) aren't even close to the range to do that activity and yet we're two weeks away from the power being pushed out to 1060.
Last Edit: May 25, 2020 21:44:29 GMT -6 by Patriot
Your average player can’t beat a Master NF much less a GM NF. Those aren’t activities meant for your average player. I only do 2-3 pinnacle activities and most weeks don’t even do them on every character. Bulk of my time has been PvP and I’ve had around two weeks of combined days I didn’t even play this season. My characters are 1006 (1024), 1006 (1024), and 1007(1025). That is without running a single NF, Pinnacle raid, pinnacle dungeon, Nightmare hunt, or running Trials. So for someone who really wanted to grind it and had enough people they run with to do those activities they could get high enough.
I still am taking the wait and see approach with weapons. Bungie has delivered with their large drops consistently and I have no reason to believe they won’t again. While I don’t think that Pinnacle weapons shouldn’t be sunset (make them exotic since they basically have exotic perks) I still have zero connection to any other Legendary weapon I have in PvE. My PvE loadout is very inconsistent and can’t think of a single non pinnacle weapon that I will miss. Pinnacle weapons I will keep and PvP weapons I will keep.
Armor I need to see in practice but again your average player isn’t even wearing armor with high stats. You’d be surprised at the amount of players not only with no high stat armor but also not using mods. I do think the target drops will help but again need to see it in practice.
If Master NF and GM NF aren't supposed to be accessible for most players, then they shouldn't be the only avenue to get Prisms and Shards. Trials doesn't count, because most folks don't play that either.
How many folks get turned off and frustrated because of a never ending, highly RNG dependent power grind?
I play a lot of Destiny. The current system makes me care a lot less than I used to.
Weapons really don't matter, which is why a lot of folks get mad about the guns in the game becoming somewhat irrelevant regardless of whether or not you can still use them in patrol and basic crucible. This isn't an MMO with higher DPS stats to chase. People tend to gravitate towards certain archetypes of weapons and certain perks, for any number of reasons.
And Bungie doesn't have a good record of rounding out and balancing the archetypes for slots and elements. In the entire history of D2, there has been exactly 1 rapid fire primary pulse rifle and that was the vanilla release Lincoln Green. There's been five of these weapons released as energy weapons, and all five are 2+ years old and will be sunsetted.
There's only ever been 1 110 energy hand cannon, it's going away too.
And so on for various types of archetypes and slots. People used Beloved because it was the only energy sniper, adaptive frame, that had a good scope (most PvP maps are small, thus people don't need high zoom) that could roll snapshot.
People aren't attached to the name, so when it comes to that weapon being replaced the one doing the replacing needs to either feel the same or feel better.
And I don't blame people for not using mods. Most folks aren't swimming in enhancement cores, so it becomes masterwork your weapons or unlock additional tiers, which you can get to tier 5 before you have to spend those cores. The cost to upgrade stuff in this game is way too high for it to be rendered mostly useless.
It becomes a pain point for longtime players, but it's an absolute nightmare for newer players. They're not swimming in legendary shards or enhancement cores, and they're having to buy upgrade modules for those cores too. They're also not swimming in mod components to be able to buy mods they don't have.
I've taken the approach that nothing matters until the Fall, so I'm not upgrading anything. Not infusing anything. Dismantled every thing except a small handful of weapons I like to use in PvP. So I have a decent little stock pile of materials to use a few weeks into the Fall expansion.
But people forget that a lot of folks joined the game with New Light and it has been a largely horrendous experience for them, especially the majority that play maybe 8 hours a week.
You can make "aspirational" content, and have loot to chase, without every single thing in the game being a tedious RNG grind that makes the game stop being fun and start feeling like it has to be a job.
Yeah the Prisms/Shard/Cores system needs tweaking. Easy fix would be buying cores for legendary shards. Legendary Shards are the easiest currency to get so using them to stockpile cores which can buy prisms which can then buy Ascendent Shards would help.
Right, it's absolutely an ludicrous price. 17 Cores to fully masterwork a weapon. Players who only play one character, get 2 free upgrade modules a week if they do Banshee's weekly bounties, otherwise they have to buy them.
The economy in the game absolutely screws newer players.
And the cost/difficulty of getting ascendant shards is one of the reasons people are upset about the armor sunsetting. Bungie last year said that masterworking armor was supposed to be something you did as an investment into a piece of gear you really liked because it had the stats you wanted, not just constantly be upgrading every armor piece you get. It's the exact reason everyone was complaining about having to grind a new armor set each season because of the seasonal mod slot.
I just don't think power should be a grind, and I don't think masterworking items should be expensive (but again, I prefer the D1 method of having to actually use the item/have it equipped when earning XP to level it up). In the case of D2, that wouldn't be to unlock a perk, but would be to masterwork the item, earn an ornament for it, etc.
Outside of some cheesy weapons, there's definitely some good balance now. Still think AR's need to be reigned in somewhat, just because you can spray and pray with them. They're the easiest to use, and so shouldn't have the same TTK as weapons you have to pace your shots with.
People still sleeping on sidearms. They used them for a season, moved on to the next thing the streamers said was good.
High Impact pulses may be good now, but I'll take my Horror's Least over one any day of the week. I can get it to do the same damage as the High Impact frames, and it fires much faster. In 3 games last night, had 68 actual kills and 65 of them were Horror's Least (1 grenade, 2 Malfeasance). The thing is straight nasty with Kill Clip and a Charge of Light.
My biggest gripe with ARs are the range. You shouldn't need to be in shotgun range but you also shouldn't be downing people from Scout range either.
Cold Denial is pretty nice and the stealth Vigilance Wing buff is nice too. Sadly my Horror Least is just okay with it's roll.
The biggest thing that helps Crucible is connection based MM. Less likely to get laggy and/or sweaty lobbies which open you up to try new weapons. There will always be Meta weapons but more times than not your best bet is just running with what you are good with
I agree it’s dumb to grind for same perks on same weapons but overall the only issues I have with sun setting are needing materials to MW my new armor and pinnacles being sunset. Other than that my main weapon loadout is already replaced even before the expansion and I have done decent getting high stat rolls on new armor. If I could get all my materials back by dismantling MW armor I could replace everything today and be good